Survey: Let’s Talk Church Conflict
I shared with you a few days ago that I am working on a project for ministry wives. According to my own experience and your responses to a blog survey on the subject, the most difficult things about being the wife of a minister is dealing with those who criticize our husbands.
Criticism and subsequent conflict comes for many reasons. Sometimes we may be attacked based on misunderstandings of intent and vision. Traditionalism in churches also places huge expectations on the ministry couple to conform to a set of unwritten standards that everyone seems to ‘know’ except us. However, there are also times when either we, our husbands, or perhaps both of us just flat out do or say something stupid. One of the most intense periods of ministry conflict for Luke and me came as a result of our inexperience with pulpit politics. Our bad decisions may have been based in ignorance but being naive didn’t change the fact we were wrong.
So let’s talk about this a bit….(Feel free to address all or any part of these questions)
For those married to the ministry:
1. Was the last/current season of conflict you experienced based on something you consider based in traditionalism?
2. Have you weathered a season of conflict as a result of pure malice from an individual or group within the church?
3. Have you faced criticism and realized it was very much deserved?
4. How did you respond in these situations? i.e., outburst at those who trash talked your hubby, depression, despondency, anger, withdrawal, forgiveness.
For laypeople:
1. Do you believe you or your congregation expect too much from your ministry families? In general, when presented with your expectations, do you feel they try to meet them?
2. What is the last thing a minister in your church or his wife did that really upset you?
3. Have you ever realized you/your congregation wrongly accused your pastor or her wife? Conversely, has your minister/his wife ever admitted to poor actions/reactions/decision-making?
4. Has the wife of your minister ever been a hindrance rather than an asset to his ministry? i.e., does she have a personality that incites conflict?
One of the most important things I have learned in ministry is the fact my husband needs me to support but not protect him. You girls may not like what I have to say here, but there is nothing that will make your hubby look more like a wimp than for his wife to verbally attack his antagonists. There’s a reason Paul exhorted women to keep silent in church! In every difficult situation we’ve ever faced I can honestly say Luke is much more likely to respond with wisdom and restraint than me. With monumental effort I honor him by keeping my big mouth shut. (I can still give an awesome eye roll when no one’s looking :) I’ve personally never given a man a tongue-lashing, but I’m ashamed to admit one’s wife was the object of my wrath once upon a time. I’ve regretted that scene ever since.
There is nothing harder on the planet than to tame the tongue where our husbands and kids are concerned. (Shhhh…it’s also really hard not to let those confidences slip when sharing “prayer requests”) Let me just say this is such a huge issue I feel we need to deal with it separately but if keeping your peace is a problem for you when your family is experiencing conflict, please feel free to tell it even if anonymously. I very much want to know how the majority of us girls react when the pressure is on our man.
Please feel free to leave any comment even if the question was not asked. This survey is loosely based on my own personal experience and situations I’ve heard from others. You may have a totally different take than anything I’ve thought of. I’m here to learn from you! :)
I’m looking forward to this little discussion…I’ll be responding in comments!
Happy Wednesday!
Are you sure you want us to respond in comments, it could get long? 1. I don’t believe I expect to much. I’ve seen and heard enough rediculous things when it comes to expectations of a pastor and his family that it keeps me in check. 2. The last thing is not practicing what he preached, and he slightly has an agenda in a certain situation. I need to look past all that though and see the word of God. In some situations I have to remember Matthew 23:1-3. 3. To both yes. 4. Not in our current situation, but I guess in the past at this church it was an issue for some, but there again is those words “for some”. There are people out there that live to critisize.
Hi Everyone,
Yes, please answer in comments!
YOu are welcome to email me if you’d like (especially if you are uncomfortable posting your remarks publicly) but I’d really like for everyone to see your reply, even if it is long, so we can have some healthy discussion. :)
Girl, I could write a whole book on church conflict………but to answer these specific questions…..
1. The tradition in our church seems to be simply dysfunction and not being able to handle conflict within the church very well. It seems that the poeple don’t trust each other to make decisions on behalf of the church (nor do they trust their pastor) so everything ends up being questioned and battled and discussed behind backs and yet on Sunday we are one big happy family…..
2. UMMMM…yes.
3. There have been times when hubs or I have been criticised and realized that it was right on and we try to respond in the correct way. But it does bother me (A LOT – it is a soap box for me) when people expect that their pastor and his family are going to just be “better” than everyone else. That the pastor will not have any sin or mistakes because they are the pastor. We are all human and this drives me crazy.
4. How do I respond? I tend to vent my frustrations to hubs and then go on loving these people as much as I can. And praying that God gives me a heart to love them with His love when I see them. I RARELY speak out to someone — outloud anyway. In my head — that is another story.
I look forward to seeing what other’s have to say. =)
My husband is a student pastor. I think the only conflict we have is some people still think student ministry is about keeping the students busy. They think we should have 30 events a month and we believe it is more like a few big events a year and then events with your small group. We see a little over 200 students on Wed. nights and there is no way could have events for the sake of having events.
We had A LOT of conflict in our first church. At the time I thought it was all the church’s fault. Looking back and with the hard but true words from my mentor (also a pastors wife) I see where I was just as much as the problem if not more of the problem then the people at the church. The conflict was there was one mom who constantly attaked my husband. Nothing we did was right. We were in our first 6 months of marriage, I had 2 full time jobs because the church did not pay enough (enough for apartment rent and that is it a month!)and my husband was a full time semanary student, and to top it all off I was just 22! I knew my husband was doing the best he could and was so mad that she did not think it was “good enough”. There were a few Sunday’s that I did not go to church because I knew if I did see her words would fly out of my mouth that should never be there in the first place!
I wish I could say that I had complete control over my tongue now but that is NOT THE CASE! I am much further along then I was but still have to reign it in A LOT. When I am frustrated with the church I vent to my husband the most but also my mentor.
With all that said I LOVE THE CHURCH. I love being a pastor’s wife. God has used the role to prune my faith and teach me more about Him.
Ok Lisa, at least I won’t promise NOT to write a book here then catch myself in a “lie” at the end by doing so! LOL
1. You read about my latest conflict the other day. I do believe it was based on traditionalism. I don’t believe though that it will continue to be a “season” (I hope not at least!)
2. Yes, not at our current church. We’ve only been here a little over a year. However, at our previous church there was A LOT of that.
3. Personally, I have not found the criticism I faced to be deserved. However, there has been criticism that hubby has faced that was deserved. It did take a little convincing from the Holy Spirit for him to realize that it was deserved!
4. Personally I tend to withdraw in these situations. Only if it is ongoing. The situation I was currently in was NOTHING compared to what we went through at our former church. I was criticized for not attending a SS Christmas party, then when I didn’t attend a baby shower it got even worse, to the point that when I had my child, there was a money tree given but no shower. My lack of attendance at these things was ALWAYS the result of something I could not control, but it was NEVER seen that way by a few of the members and those few were pretty “powerful”. At the time I will say I was very hurt, I cried a lot, these people never helped us feel welcomed accept for the first 5 or 6 months we were there. They NEVER visited our house and outside of church we never saw them accept for the occasional bump in at WalMart. There was always a lot of “trashing” of my hubby. There were many times I would walk into SS and the room got really quiet. (one of those weird quiets).
I could go on about it all, I will if you want me to, but I think I will close for now.
I do want to say this though….I do think that there are a lot of people that think we (as ministers/minister’s wives) should be almost perfect. There is a lot of pressure to be just that. However, I do have to say that putting the whole “shorts incident” aside, I do believe that the church where we currently serve seems to have a healthier belief on that. I have been told by many people, “you don’t have to do everything, you are not SuperWoman and he is not SuperMan.” And things like “ya’ll will make mistakes and we will love you through them.” I will also add that those comments came from people ranging in age from 35-50.
Anyway, hope this is what you wanted and not too much.
Angela
I just read Lori’s comment. Hers was added while I was writing mine, I do agree with you that we are also expected to do a lot of EVENTS just for the sake of having them. My hubby is all about discipling kids….helping them to grow closer to God, so that when they leave this place and go off to school or get a job or whatever, then they will have a solid foundation on which to stand. We don’t want them to rely on someone always planning some kind of event in order to grow in their faith!
Just had to add that!
I see this from both sides only because my best friend’s husband is the Senior pastor and of course she is a minister’s wife and then being a layperson.
I think that people expect to much from a pastor in this: for example, the pastor MUST be the one making ALL the hospital visits etc… a deacon won’t do it must be the pastor. The deacons are called to serve the church body in this way and I feel we wear out the pastor to the point of taking away his time of spending with the Lord and preparing the sermons, which he was called to do, preach the Word. I am not saying he should never make hospital visits or any other form of ministry, just that we expect the pastor to do everything. NO one can meet our needs like Jesus. When problems arise we need to run to Jesus first. I think we expect to be filled up by pastors, friends, when only Jesus can do that for us. The rest I will email you about!
Love,
Patty
Mindy,
You bring up an interesting point in that the church does not know how to handle conflict.
No one likes confrontation, but the Matthew 5 and 18 example of conflict resolutions, were they practiced, would resolve 90% of our petty issues before they ever gained momentum. Hubby calls it ‘nipping it in the bud’ and I have to praise him where this gift is concerned. If he senses someone is upset, he’s all over them before they have a chance to let it fester. They may not admit there is a problem but when we go to our brothers and sisters, ask forgiveness if we feel they are holding something against us and they choose to withhold it? Well, then the ball is in their court and the Lord will have to deal in that individual’s life. Point being they will never be able to say you didn’t give them opportunity to express their hurt.
More in a bit! ;)
Lisa
1. Was the last/current season of conflict you experienced based on something you consider based in traditionalism?
We have never had any real conflict with the people in our church – and we will celebrate our 20th anniversary in April! Interesting enough, most of the conflict we face comes from staff – mostly the associate pastor. We live in a very rural community and our people enjoy worshipping in a more traditional sense. It works for them. However, our associate is young and desires a more contemporary style. What makes it difficult is that he is very quiet. I call him a silent controller. We feel that he often tries to get people to side with him and sometimes are concerned that he would not mind causing conflict in order to get things his way.
2. Have you weathered a season of conflict as a result of pure malice from an individual or group within the church?
No – we have never experienced that.
3. Have you faced criticism and realized it was very much deserved?
Our people are so kind and loving. If I have been criticized ( and I’m sure I must – and deservedly so at times) it has been kept from me.
4. How did you respond in these situations? i.e., outburst at those who trash talked your hubby, depression, despondency, anger, withdrawal, forgiveness.
I have never heard of anyone trash talking my husband. But if I did, I would fear for them – not from my wrath – but from our congregation – they would defend him to the end!
I am a layperson, but I do wonder how you Biblically confront your pastor and/or wife if there is clearly something amiss.
Since I’m anonymous, I can ask your opinion specifically. (I’m anonymous because I’m can’t remember my password and am not computer savy enough to get another id – LOL) Our church got a new pastor early this fall. He is terrific from the pulpit, but it really doesn’t translate into his everyday life. I’m not talking perfection – I’m talking general courtesies (sp?) Also, the congregation was not told that he and his wife have a home based business on the side – Quixtar, it’s Amway with a new name. Consequently, they have already gone to two weekend seminars for this business and are at business meetings every Monday night. Once a month our men and women’s missions group get together for dinner and then seperate to do there own things. Our Pastor and his wife choose the meetings over this fellowship together. I know they can’t be involved in everything, but I just can’t help but think this is inappropriate. There are other little things, but I feel you either want to build a ministry or a business, but how can you justify both? Help me understand. Thanks!
My hubby and I have been in ministry for 27 years so I could certainly supply an entire library with books!
1. We have pastored our current church for ten years. Believe me when I say the church has certainly come a long way but we continue to wade through traditionalism. For the most part we have a wonderful group of folks and God has really blessed us with a great church. Our former pastorate was a very troubled church and most of the conflicts experienced there were definitely based on control issues. What amazes me is that people somehow think the church belongs to them and it is their responsibility instead of God’s to control every aspect of the church and to make all the decisions for the pastor!
2. About two years ago a group of transitional saints landed in our church. Folks were so excited that this large group of people who were now attending our church. About six months after they arrived their claws and fangs began to show. That was one of the most difficult experiences of our ministry. They were wolves in sheeps clothing and attempted to destroy our ministry. We prayed, and prayed and prayed for God to shut the lion’s mouth. They were spreading trash about both my husband and I. Honestly, I wanted to personally address one of the individuals and it would have been ugly. But God is so awesome. He gave me a peace and reminded me that in His timing He would take care of the situation. My husband exposed what they were doing in a Sunday morning service without necessarily naming them but everyone knew. Our church rallied behind us in an awesome way! Eventually the entire group left our church with their tails between their legs!
3. I am sure there have been times over the past 27 years that I definitely deserved criticism especially in our early years of ministry but I cannot think of any specific situation. I have no problem admiting that I have been wrong. What can people say to you when you simply tell them that you are sorry and that you were wrong?
4. God has given me such an amazing peace over the years when it comes to conflict situations in the church. People talk. People criticize each other and the pastor and his family. That will never change. I met a retired pastor’s wife years ago who was never able to manage all the hurt and pain inflicted on her family when they were in ministry. As a result of her not being able to cope with all the garbage she was seeing a psychiatrist weekly. She was so hurt and the pain was so evident when you looked into her eyes. I will never forget her. I promised myself that day I would never allow people and their tongues to destroy my life or family. God is our source and our strength. As women in ministry we must trust God with all of it.
Blessings to you Lisa!
Lisa,
You have asked some wonderful questions and given some oh, such good and Godly advice to us wives.
We have not experienced too much conflict based on traditionalism or at least nothing too harsh. I think this varies greatly depending on the denomination itself and their own policies and traditions for the placing of Pastors in their churches.
The answer to #2 would be different. We have weathered some huge storms as a result of one individual or a small group who mostly had trouble submitting their hearts to our leadership. My husband and I both have looked at these events through the eyes of “God what is it you would have us learn or change from these experiences?” Becasue even if we are “right”, we always knew there were things we could do totally different and much of the time we realized it was easy for us to take it all way too personal. Which would send us down a totally different path.(even with some very vicious and hurtful attacks)
I couldn’t agree with you more about keeping our mouths quiet when it comes to defending our husbands. My husband does not need me all in hissy fit when we get home because I was in the midst of it trying to hold up the shield and everything else. He needs a place of refuge, my loving and wise support, a new and fresh place to share his heart without the criticism he just faced being acted out by his wife.
God has used me to speak wisdom to my husband when he is not sure which way to turn and I could have never done that if I was trying to guard him instead of being the support we are called to be as a wife no matter what our husband’s calling is.
Well, enough for now. I could go on and on. I will be back later to read more comments.
Patty –
Amen on the visiting thang! :)
First of all, Luke loves to visit. He’d rather be in the highways and hedges than his office but with that said, it can often get overwhelming. It does help, especially if you have someone in extended illness situations to have deacons who will share that load. We are blessed to have this but you are so right! I fear if Luke turned that all over to the deacons there would be backlash from the people and the deacons. lol
One thing I try to help Luke with is being at surgeries for women who are having ‘girl problems’. There are some things a woman just doesn’t want her male pastor knowing about. This doesn’t happen a whole lot, but I feel it is one small way I can help him, make the church member more comfortable while knowing she is still being prayed and cared for.
This issue really has a lot to do with the size of your congregation. I would say if this is an overwhelming issue for a minister and his wife that it should be gently, and I do mean gently approached with the leadership. One thing Luke is wanting to do soon is institute a deacon ministry where each one is responsible for certain segments of the congregation. Luke would still visit of course but there would be an assigned deacon to supplement that.
Do any of you have deacon ministries that are thriving?
Lisa
Hi Lisa, this is very interesting. I have enjoyed reading the comments.
My husband and I have attended three churches in our 23 years of marriage. I become very frustrated with members of the church who are overly critical of our pastors. People do seem to feel that as pastors they should not have the same problems we all do. Also, I have seen to many people put their faith in the pastor instead of The One True God so when things get rough they bail out of the church. We have attended a “mega” church for 16 years and I have seen to many pastors burn themselves and their marriages out trying to meet the needs of their church. I think more members need to remember that a pastor has a family that needs to be a priority in his life, even before their needs. I find it unbelievable the ridiculous expectations placed on our clergy.
We have had much conflict in our church over the years. When you put people together you are going to have conflict. We have had major things like pastors mis handling funds and our share of extra marital affairs, to the small things (that always seem ridiculous to me) of whether to serve communion at the beginning or end of the service.
I think Traditionalism is huge. People do not like to leave their comfort zone, the familiar is comforting. I remember when we started letting women serve communion a few years ago people were all up in arms. Not because they felt it was a scriptural no no, it just had never been done.
I am sure your congregation is very blessed to have such a wise woman as the partner to their pastor.
Blessings
Julie
Lori,
If there is one thing that truly hurts in ministry it is the perception that it is the church’s job to make coming FUN for youth and consequently not require them to come if they aren’t having a good enough time.
Now don’t get me wrong, I love activities as much as the next person and my children having a place to worship and fellowship with the kids of the body is very important to me. But ultimately, my children’s walk with God is up to me as a parent. My trash talking the youth department for its seeming weaknesses does nothing to encourage my child to love God’s house and be zealous to make it better instead of withdrawing support.
It is God’s Word that will work in a young person’s heart and life to make him/her want to return – not a great praise band or hotdogs every Wednesday night. If a kid can be won or lost with a praise band or hotdog then we are in some serious trouble when the hotdogs run out. We see this truth represented with the statistic that 80% of 18 year olds stop coming to church when they are no longer made to come (even earlier for those whose parents give them the choice of attendance). (Texas Baptist Study)
I admire you and your husband and other student ministers who feel it is their calling to work with this age group. You keep teaching the Word and trust God for the increase! ;)
Mindy,
Girl, I know you’ve been through the wringer and have had some very nasty little comments straight to your face. This is just stinkin’ hard to retain your composure in that circumstance.
There was a person in a church we served in long ago that despised me and Luke because our doctrinal views were different. I learned to find much joy in going straight to her first thing every Sunday morning, hugging her neck and telling her I loved her. And you know what? I wasn’t being insincere. I did love her. One thing my friend Tammy shared with me that is so true is this: hurt people hurt people. To that I would add: controlled people control people. Ultimately when people are down right vicious with us it is because there is a perceived loss of control where a matter is concerned. I have learned over the years not to take this personally – that it is a character flaw in the person and not in me.
I particularly love this scripture where criticism is concerned:
1 Peter 3:16-17 “keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak malicously against our good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander. It is better, if it is God’s will, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil.”
You girls keep it coming!! I’m trying to keep up with your remarks but they are all so good and I want to give thoughtful answers…I’ll catch up in a bit..! :))
Lisa,
That statistic keeps my husband up at night! We are constantly praying that God gives us wisdom to make TRUE followers of Him. I agree 150% on the subject that parents MUST BE part of the process and they ARE the biggest influence on their child’s life. We have recently formed a parent leadership team that meets and discuss how we can get empower parents and encourage them to mentor thier children. It is hard because we are blamed when their child no longer finds church “fun” and stops coming. When most of the time the child stops coming because they don’t see why this fatih thing matters because they don’t see it worked out in the home. Parents allowed their child to play baseball on Wed. and Sundays instead of coming to church and then wander why church is not a priority for them when they become teenagers.
We see them 3-4 hours a week if they attend everything we offer. What do you think is the best way to teach parents what they do matters and get them involved in their childs spiritual growth? I would love to hear from parents who have students who are following hard of Christ and love the church for ideas.
Oh my….talk about conflict and here it comes!!! The hubby just called me…..about 4 months ago two girls and one guy TP’d our house. (something the hubby despises, and they knew!) Anyway, we knew who did it…wasn’t that big a deal, but hubby told them they had to clean it up…they denied it for a whole half a day then they admitted to it all and came to clean it up….
WELL, the hubby just called and said that the senior pastor just called him in and gave him this line of questioning…
“Did you call the cops on some kids that TP’d your house? and Did you make their dad’s come clean it up?”
Hubby’s response: “4 months ago 2 girls and a boy came and TP’d the house. They once they admitted to doing it they also told me and Angie that someone from the sherrif’s dept. was patroling and caught them and told them to go home….SO I told them they had to clean it up. I was under the impression that the kids cleaned it up. All I know is I came home from church that evening and it was cleaned up.”
FOUR months later and this is being brought up and with false facts! What the heck??
*shaking head and heavy sigh*
Hi Angela!
Sounds like you got some stuff going on girl! :)
The last thing you posted is just another typical, nitpicky thing that is bound to happen in ministry. Most likely, the families involved in this incident have been stewing since that time and for whatever reason, your pastor is just becoming aware of it. I don’t know how he approached your husband, but he’s certainly within his bounds to try to get all the facts if this is something he’s been brought in to.
With that said, I hope you have a great relationship with your senior and that he is quick to listen, slow to speak and withheld any judgement until he talked with your hubby. Youth work can be tricky when you are dealing with kids who often distort facts and/or change the story significantly to keep from getting in trouble. (Wait, couldn’t we be speaking about adults here, too? :)
Matthew 5 tells us if we sense someone has an aught against us we should go directly to them, settle the matter, and then come bring our offerings to the altar. I think I said it somewhere else, but a whole lot of hurt feelings could be spared if both church members and staff would follow the direct approach scripture advises.
So, if it were me, I would approach the families involved with a humble heart, apologize for any misunderstanding and tell them exactly what conversation transpired between you and their children. They can either forgive or not. If they choose not, it’s not your burden to bear any longer.
I’m not in any way trying to give your husband counsel in his position. Our roles are so intimately intertwined it is difficult to suggest something for the wife that doesn’t relate to the hubby as well. I hope you know I’m not intentionally overstepping any bounds here. The important thing for you is to keep an open heart towards these families and accept that it was obviously a misunderstanding.
Hope it all works out! :)
Lisa
Lisa,
I am sure it will all work out! For the most part the people here seem to be understanding. Luckily our senior is one that is slow to speak. God had blessed us there!
Don’t ever think I would think you are over stepping your boundaries! I come here (to blogland) to seek counsel of Godly women. I do believe I get that here! Thank you for allowing God to use you in that way!
Going home now….see you all tomorrow!
I tried not to read all the other comments before I commented because I did not want them to influence my thinking/comment.
I will go back and read them afterwards.
1. Absolutely tradition had much to do with conflict. In a former church, there was a men’s Bible class that determined that they were in charge of the church and refused to follow the leadership of or support the pastor (my husband). They did everything in their power to undermine the ministry.
2. This gets into the malice. They (the Men’s Bible Class) literally set out to destroy him and made up lies and spread rumors. They had done the same thing to all the former pastors as well. One pastor was completely destroyed by it.
3. Yes. I suppose the criticism was deserved, but it was because they did not understand the intent behind what was said or done.
4. I wish that I could say that we immediately walked in love and forgiveness and prayed for our “enemies”.
At first we were very hurt and withdrew, then we got angry and depressed.
It took much time and prayer to get to the point of healing and restoration and forgiveness.
We were blessed because we did not lash out at the attackers.
There are times when the pain will return and we must again forgive and seek healing.
I read your post topic and said aloud, “Oh Boy!” It’s a tough issue…and in our almost 17 years of marriage we have observed much, which I will email for the sake of guardedness in sharing. No “prayer requests” here! For the record everything I share will not be our current church home.
Dear Anonymous,
Your question about your pastor’s ‘business’ is a great one and situation that arises more than you think.
Luke and I have only been in two full-time pastorates and it was made very clear up front that Luke was not to have any other employment without the prior approval of the church. This is pretty standard practice unless other arrangements were made during the interview process. I don’t know the specifics in your pastor’s situation, but a friend of mine just recently shared with me their pastor secretly had other employment on the side even though it was made clear his responsibility was to be available to the church first. Instead of being repentant, he became very angry when he was approached and lashed out at the church for not paying him enough to meet his needs.
Here’s the thing. Ministry families know going in what the pay is going to be. I don’t believe any of our husbands ever answered the call to ministry with the idea he was going to get rich. The reality is statistically, there are very few churches who pay much more than poverty level based on the size of your family. The minister’s family moreso than many other occupations has to be very creative in budgeting. Is that the understatement of the year or what?
When we were called to our first pastorate we didn’t realize it was within our right to examine the pay package and determine if our family could truly survive on it. Our mindset often makes us feel guilty for getting paid to minister or to ask for any more than what is being offered. On the reverse side of that, I believe with all my heart that if God is strongly calling you to a work where the numbers just don’t seem to make sense on paper, that He will provide your needs. BUT – if we have given our word to only have employment with the church then it is wrong to pursue other avenues of income without letting the church know your situation. If the leadership knew you were in a place of having to find other employment, it’s possible they would raise up and provide the extra income needed to prevent that from happening.
I don’t know that I can stress enough how important it is to ask a lot of questions about what is expected of your family during the interview process. We are trained to interview with the mindset of impressing those whom we meet. We can get so caught up in being impressive that we forget to make sure we are impressed, i.e. that the church is one that is going to love our family and meet our needs.
Again, I’m not discounting the work of the Holy Spirit in this process because He will give us much ministry mileage in the worst situations. In my eyes, there is no such thing as a bad place to minister. The worst of critical, political, traditional, difficult-to-please congregations will be a proving ground that will serve you the rest of your life.
Lisa,
I have emailed you my comments since we are in the midst of a conflict at our church.
I will share a couple of things the Lord is teaching me through these trials.
The first thing is to keep my mouth shut. I can not only hurt my man’s ministry and my own testimony at church, but there is another area in which we must be careful…our children. I have the opportunity to model faith and godliness in front of them during situations like the one we are going through. They can either see a momma who exercises self-control and forgiveness when people hurt us or they can see a loud mouth woman who gives everybody a piece of her mind. Also, I believe we need to be careful with what we say in front of them. Our children don’t need to know everything that happens in the church. It is too much for them to handle. They should be treated as weaker vessels and we need to be careful not to cause them to stumble.
My biggest struggle is feeling isolated. Let’s face it, we can’t talk to other women in the church about problems. Outside of the Lord, we need people we can unload on and who will hold us accountable for our attitudes and actions. We need each other.
Thanks, Lisa.
Kelli
Our ministry is to college students. We live on the campus. My husand is an ordained pastor, and leader in our church, and many times acts as an “unofficial assistant pastor” at church. I was very involved with a college student, for all her years as a student here, and also knew her and her family from church. She would come to my home for coffee, and tell me all her problems..crying at times about how difficult her parents were. THis put me in an awkward position because I am also friends with her parents. She would come here often, and I would try to direct her to her parents, but give her counsil as well. Then I found out she was going to a couple other people with the same issues, and pretty much ignoring any counsil I would give her…she would just go with whoever told her what she wanted to hear at the time. She was also tearing me down behind my back, and I didn’t realize it. She is now out of college, but has gossiped about me, and as much as I have tried to follow these things up, she won’t make things right. I have had to let her go. She has also fed her parents information that was not true, and it has hurt my relationship with her mom. All I did was make myself available to her, as I do anyone, and point her to the Word of God. But as you know, His anwers are not always easy or popular, and apparantly she didn’t like them! I have had to give the Lord the relationship with her, with her parents, and most of all, I have had to give my reputation to Him. It has been very hard, and I fight resentment at times.
I think that the mistake I made was allowing her to talk about her parents. If I had it to do it over again, I would have just told her to take the time to go discuss it with them. They are not unreasonable people. I would also not have believed everything she said. She has a tendancy towards “drama” as many girls her age do! I am much more gaurded in my times with girls now.
Ok, I took a few days to pray about my responses, not that they will be earth shattering but I just wanted to be in the right spirit.
I’ve only been a pastor’s wife for 2 and a half years, so I’m very new to this.
1.The conflict that we just came through (and I do mean ‘just’) was definitely base on traditionalism. (The role of the pastor and the role of the deacon)
2.There was a gentleman who led this conflict and he was spreading lies about my husband, trying to “win-over” the people. I can’t say that it was pure malice but more like a power struggle.
3.No, I don’t think so.
4.I, by the grace of God, have never had any confrontation experiences with church members.
In response to something you said in a comment about thriving deacon’s ministry, I’d like to share. (I’ll try to be brief)
Our church has really turned a corner. We are a small town Baptist church, where for years the belief was that the deacons make all the decisions in the church. According to our by-laws, our deacons should be a servant body, not an authoritative board but some men still held on to that belief. Almost all of those men have stepped down as deacons and we have a group of men now whose hearts desire is to serve the pastor and the church. So yes, I believe we are on the cusp of having a thriving deacon’s ministry. If you’ve ever been a part of a church where it is a ministy and not a board, the difference is truly amazing. First Baptist of Woodstock, Ga is a prime example!
Thanks for asking us to be a part of your project! With all that said, I just want to state how much I love being a pastor’w wife and I don’t take my role lightly!
Love you!!!
New to your blog but I really appreciate this post; good food for thought. Working on not being defensive is hard for me, especially if Hubby is attacked (you are right about that!). I will be pondering this line: “there is nothing that will make your hubby look more like a wimp than for his wife to verbally attack his antagonists.”
1. In general, I do feel this way. Our church has gone to a 3 way leadership system, to help alleviate some of this fishbowl effect. We have a teaching pastor, a worship pastor, and an elder board. Although all (paid) pastors are elders, we also have many who are appointed during a difficult process, where they must interview, be presented to the church, etc. One of the reasons we went to this form of leadership, having no senior pastor, per se, is that our previous senior/teaching pastor was so burned out. He left the church because he felt that he was being a terrible father and husband with all the church activities and expectations. In this new system, I do think that the expectations of those in leadership are still probably there, but perhaps lessened(?) I sure hope so–no one is God except God, and it’s so dangerous when we start elevating man–for them and for us.
2. I can’t think of anything. There may be things I don’t always agree with, or maybe so and so doesn’t seem as warm to me as usual. They’re people! They have bad days, and Sunday, while restful to most, is a work day for pastors and (often) their wives.
3. It sounds like people will fill out their communication cards with silly comments, like “Pastor Jeff should dress up more”, but I don’t think there’s been any scandal or overt issues. I will say that people don’t like change, and they can tend to get their knickers in a twist about silly things, which is sad. It’s church, people, not the playground in 3rd grade.
4. Thankfully, we have some great ministers’ wives. In fact, one of them told me that they all go out with one another each month to remain grounded and close to one another for support. Usually, they choose an area of focus (e.g. teaching Bible studies, leading ladies’ groups), but I’d be okay if they didn’t want to, as well. Especially when the kids are little. It’s hard!
I tip my hat to you, Lisa, for even wanting to address and improve this. Sometimes the impatient one in me just wants to tell those poor souls who must have too much time on their hands to back off and get a life, but that’s not too Jesus-y, is it? :) Or, maybe it is. Jesus didn’t have much patience for people like that.
Blessings on this endeavor.
Thought I’d give this questionaire a try too:
For laypeople:
1. Do you believe you or your congregation expect too much from your ministry families?
Yes, I think that some of the congregation do just that! I don’t like it and try not to do it myself.
In general, when presented with your expectations, do you feel they try to meet them?
They try, that’s for sure.
2. What is the last thing a minister in your church or his wife did that really upset you?
Honestly, they’ve never done anything to “really upset me”. I don’t “upset” easily. I blogged today about a general philosophy in our church but I’m not “upset” about it, per se. It’s simply a discerning time for me, whether the church I go to is for me.
3. Have you ever realized you/your congregation wrongly accused your pastor or her wife?
I have never heard about our pastor or his wife wrongly accused… or rightly accused, actually. I absolutely REFUSE to listen or participate in gossip and I think a lot of the accusations happen in a “gossipy” sort of way so I steer clear of those conversations.
Conversely, has your minister/his wife ever admitted to poor actions/reactions/decision-making?
I’ve never heard either one of them admit to anything like that.
4. Has the wife of your minister ever been a hindrance rather than an asset to his ministry? i.e., does she have a personality that incites conflict?
My pastor’s wife is a wonderful person and probably the harder working person out of the two of them (pastor and wife). She’s a sweetheart and I don’t know of anyone who doesn’t like her or has any problem with her. But again… I don’t listen to gossip so maybe others have indeed talked about her and I just haven’t heard it.
People pretty much know by now that I’ll cut them off mid-sentence if I hear gossip. It’s just NOT my bag! Ugh!!
There’s my .02 for whatever it’s worth. :-)
One in the Body~ Pearl
Lisa,
I hope I’m not too late to respond to this post. I’ve been thinking about some answers. I would come under the category of Layperson. We have been involved in an amazing church for the last 6-plus years. Our pastor has become so dear to us as a family. He is the most “real” pastor I have known. Just this morning during the sermon a sweet, sweet senior saint passed out. Our pastor noticed and stopped the sermon and asked those with medical backgrounds to help her. as they carried her out, he stopped to pray and was crying as he did. Bless his heart, he took a few moments to compose himself and continued with the sermon on prayer. And when he was told a bit later that she was okay, he cried a bit more and prayed for her and went onto finish the sermon. So, so touching and REAL. He lets us see his tender side. The pastor you see in Sunday mornings preaching, is the same man you see around town, or at his home. He’s not afraid to be transparent. The church to him is all about relationships, not another program. He gets right in there with people to help roof their house, unclog a stopped up kitchen sink the night before Easter, (that would have been me — oops!!) That transparency and willingness to jump in rubs off on people in the congregation. My 18 year old daughter loves to help roof houses! My college age son took all of about a month to ask at his church at college how he can help. (I praise God fro my kids to see a healthy, fun church in action!) Two weeks ago he preached on getting into the word personally. He regularly asks questions of the congregation during his sermon. Last week he started the sermon with a question from the week before. (He had planned to preach on prayer that week.) He ended up “winging” it and fielding questions and suggestions people had about devotions. The prepared sermon was never preached. He said he had never had so much positive feedback before.
Having said all that… I can’t really think of conflict in our church. I’m sure there are a few who try to “ruffle the feathers”, but I really think the pastor just doesn’t let it get out of control. He is ALWAYS concerned with how to handle things according to the Bible. And THAT rubs off… when my husband and I have had a difficult time with our extended families, we stop to think how to handle the situation according to God’s standards. I do know that he has sometimes come to me asking for forgiveness for reacting to something wrongly. He isn’t afraid to admit he’s wrong.
Well I have probably rambled to much. Let me know if you need clarification on anything.
1. Was the last/current season of conflict you experienced based on something you consider based in traditionalism?
When I think of our twenty years in full time church service, there were seasons of conflict. Yes, if I had to cluster them into a pile, most would be based in traditional—we’ve never done it THAT way before—beliefs and attitudes. In our service, however, my DH was often brought in to clean up someone else’s mess…this made it tougher sometimes. In other words, we were often appointed to a church that had been suffering because of conflict.
2. Have you weathered a season of conflict as a result of pure malice from an individual or group within the church?
Yes. We have had (I’m sure) well-meaning people get down right ugly and malicious. Most of the time, they’d leave…and that was OK with me. Of course, you always hope that you’re able to find resolution, but I’m convinced that some parishoners thrive on conflict and won’t be happy unless they are dredging up something.
3. Have you faced criticism and realized it was very much deserved? I was criticized for NOT being as involved as some people thought I should be. This is an area that I’ve always tried to stand my ground. No, I can’t think of a time when I thought the conflict was deserved…I can see times when it helped us grow.
4. How did you respond in these situations? i.e., outburst at those who trash talked your hubby, depression, despondency, anger, withdrawal, forgiveness.
I’ve gone through almost all of these reactions at one point in time or another. I did have ONE major outburst early on with someone. It was definitely an emotional overreaction on my part…still, I felt so hurt by his words about me and my husband that I let it rip…that was the last time that happened.
I find that my husband is more able to let these things roll off his back than me. He sees them more logical and less emotional…probably why HE’S called to be the pastor and I’m only called to be HIS wife.
I really think that’s the thing that God has taught me over the years. I am there to support my husband not the hundreds of people that call him “Pastor” so much. Sure I need to love them, but my first priority needs to be to honor him and love him despite the outside pressure and conflict.
You mentioned in the post above that you need to ask him to pray about it first. I think there were plenty of times when my DH handled conflict alone because he didn’t want to burden me with it. I respect that and love the fact that he was so aware of my feelings, too. I also think I’m guilty of occasionally pressuring him to hear what’s going on more for my own “gossip heart” than his well-being. I think that’s when I learned that I need to listen to him and not “dig at the issues” unless he asked me to…
It’s hard!!
Hugs,
:-) Susan
Lisa, what a fascinating topic with vastly divergent answers.
About 15 years ago we had a major conflict based on traditionalism. Some members disagreed with a more modern approach and attempted to unseat the pastor (my husband).
Three times (in 37 years) we’ve had a season of conflict based on assistant pastors disagreeing with the Sr. pastor and dragging the congregation into battle.
My husband is a soft-spoken man who doesn’t get easily riled. When necessary however, he is perfectly capable of handling the situation.
I’m not a traditional pastor’s wife in that I have a pulpit ministry as well. I can usually hold my tongue.
One thing I’ve learned is that no matter what others do, always do the right thing. It may mean being quiet and taking verbal abuse for a time, or enduring a sense of abandonment (real or perceived), but eventually God takes care of things.
My father once brought charges against a pastor to the board. (He believed it was justified.) After the fiasco, he made the comment that never again would he oppose a pastor. The spiritual toll was entirely too great.
I’m also not a conventional “pastor’s wife” since I am ordained and minister as well. I’m a third generation female preacher. So my role is a dual one. I’m still the Sr. pastor’s wife.
But thought I’d add my 2-cents!
We have only been in full time ministry for a year (hubby is a youth pastor). Before full time he was part time for about 6 months at another church. We have seen conflict in both places toward hubby and the pastor. Neat story… but too long to tell, the pastor at our previous church is the same pastor we have now… God moved us both!! Anyways, to answer the questions:
1. Yes, most of the conflicts have been based on traditionalism!! One conflict at a previous church was one that ultimately resulted in us leaving (it was God lead.. the situation made it clear that God was leading us to leave!). DH had absolutely no support from the deacons when the conflict arose. It is terribly hard to serve in a church where no one has your back at all. This conflict was somewhat of a control issue with a man in the church. My hubby was not given the leadership and respect that he deserved. In our current church the conflicts have been somewhat minor, but primarily all based on traditionalism. I will say 2 phrases and leave it at that “history room” and “music”. WOW!!!!
2. Sometimes I wonder if one particular (sort of ongoing/the one I mentioned above)conflict is malice. It seems so petty to me to be anything otherwise. This conflict is more against church leadership than my hubby in particular. The conflict at our previous church definitely turned into malice on the other man’s part considering he actually threatened my husband.
3. Actually I have not. I think that since we haven’t been in the ministry for long no one’s had the chance! I hope that if it ever does come to that and it is deserved, then I can definitely admit my mistakes.
4. I am a very quiet person! So, just because of my personality I would probably never say anything. I honestly do try to just be a place of support for my husband. With our first conflict that lead us leaving our first church, I will admit anger… it is hard when someone actually threatens your husband. I have since then gotten over it! And currently, I try to pray for those who seem to want to criticise my husband and the other leaders at the church. Praying for your ‘enemies’ can totally change your heart about those people.
I truly believe that the devil places people in the church to be a thorn. We must lift our husbands up in prayer to be able to deal rightly with these types of people. The devil wants to see the man of God fail! Our jobs as wives are to be a support system and to make sure they are bathed in prayer!
Something else we have been dealing with (I’ve sort of blogged about it some) is conflict outside of the church. Anyways, it’s too much to go into here but my husband has been accused of things by other local pastors (these are theological type things.. nothing immoral) that has simply been blown out of proportion. It has been very difficult for me to deal with considering where the accusations have come from.. anyways.. this would probably be better told in an email!! :)
I do pray for my pastor. He is shepherding a church with a long history of trouble. But, he’s removed himself from ministering–we used to have two Sunday services and mid-week prayer meeting. We now have ONE service on Sundays, no prayer service, and the church has begun to look more like the world than the church or the Bride of Christ. He’s been here for nine years or so. While no one is static, he’s not changed for the better. When he came here, he and his wife both have said they don’t need to be the one in charge, they prefer NOT to be the ones in charge, yet he has people on the board who for the most part will do his bidding. The last thing he did that upset me was to misquote scripture in his yearly “stewardship” message–two years in a row. Right now we are in a fundraising mode so that we can build a new facility, but our weekly attendance dwindles. No one who has left the church has really felt at ease about telling what pushed them out the door. My feelings are really mixed, I hate seeing what is happening to my church, but I hate being there–it’s not what it could be even with us fallible humans.
I know that I’m a little late coming to the table. I’ve wrestled with responding here or not because my heart still hurts from the long and painful season that we just came through. I also didn’t think I could answer concisely in a comment. (We’ve been in ministry together for 10 years. I was in ministry for 2 yrs before I met DH and has been for nearly 20 years.)
1. There certainly have been conflicts related to progression vs. traditionalism. The recent painful experience was more about personalities. My husband is an introvert and this somehow became a personality flaw after two years serving at that church. It could also be said that this was a scapegoat for a dying church.
2. Many of the things said were incredibly malicious and deeply painful.
3. The criticism hasn’t been pointed at me. Many times I wish it had been pointed at me rather than him.
4. I choose: depression, despondency, anger, withdrawal, and working toward forgiveness for that group of leaders. I’m not there yet, but will be.