Spectacular Sins Book Club – Chapter 3

Chapter 3 ladies! I am so glad to join you once again!
I open this week’s discussion questions with one that my five year old son, Shepherd, asked me recently. “When Satan became a bad guy angel and God kicked him outta heaven, did he lose his wings?”
Things that make you go hmmm.
Perhaps we should email Piper and ask him what he thinks?
Moving on...
1. On page 40 Piper tells us that the name Satan means “accuser.” Do you ever feel accused? I know I do. Sometimes I lie in bed at night and obsess over all the ways I have failed throughout the day, or I relive all the sins of my past. Turn in your bibles (or click here) to read Romans 8:1-2. What does this verse say? If this is true, from whom are all those accusations of failure? What then should we do when our thoughts go there? What is the difference between condemnation of our sin by the Evil One and conviction of our sin by the Holy Spirit?
2. How does God allowing Satan to live bring glory to Christ?
3. Read the ‘Eight Things to Do with Evil” and “Four Things to Never Do with Evil” lists on pages 50-51. Which of these do you have the most problem with?
4. Recall Piper’s introduction, specifically pages 13-16 when he speaks of persecution of the Church. Since December I have been praying for Martha Samuel Makkar. She is an Egyptian sister in Christ who converted from Islam, and has faced persecution ever since. In December, she was arrested at the airport when she tried to emigrate to Russia. Martha was placed in prison, tortured, raped, and her two and four year old sons were denied food in an attempt to cause her to renounce Christ. She was recently released on bail and is awaiting trial. You can read her story here and here (and please join me in praying!)
How might the truths Piper has conveyed in this chapter regarding evil – the “weighty doctrine” – bring comfort to Martha and her family while she undergoes persecution for Christ?
Can’t wait to hear what y’all have to say, sisters! I couldn’t comment to many of you last time because immediately afterward my family got slammed by the flu (which God allowed in order to glorify Christ!) But this time, I’m ready God willing, so bring ’em on. :)
Love, Missy
**Note from Lisa: There are two weekend posts that PW’s need to see…Be sure to scroll down (or click over here from your reader) after you’ve answered Missy’s Marvelous Questions. Don’t y’all LOVE her?”
Wow! This book is amazingly challenging both in that it is weighty material and in that it really makes me think and evaluate. These sparse comments cannot even begin to touch the amount of spinning my brain is doing. I do hope you can glean something from it.
1. Oh how I feel accused at times! Paul states in Romans that there is NO condemnation in Christ Jesus. So those accusations of failure are most certainly Satan and his minions speaking at me. We need to take those thoughts captive and dismiss them (2 Cor 10:4-5) because Satan’s accusations should not have any hold over us. Hallelujah for that ! I believe that the difference between condemnation and conviction is purpose. Condemnation is meant to disable my Christian walk and make me ineffective. The Holy Spirit’s conviction in my life is to highlight where I need to move back to God or forward in my walk, give me a pathway back to God and restore that area of my life. It is always meant to make me more effective not less.
2. Piper explains that a single immediate destruction of Satan at the time of his fall would have been a demonstration of power, but does not show the fullness of the glory of Christ. Through the ages since Adam and Eve’s fall, Christ has been glorified in the lives that have followed Him, who have chosen not to allow Satan’s deception to rule their lives but have chosen to allow Christ to be glorified in them. So He is glorified in the waiting time. But ultimately, no single act could bring more glory to God than the sacrificial death of Jesus on the cross–that is the fullness of Christ’s glory.
3. For me, “giving thanks for the refining effect of evil” (#3) while at the same time “hating evil” (#4) are great challenges. I find it a very difficult step of trust to say “God I hate this, I hate everything about it, but I will thank you for the work you are doing here anyway.” I would much rather thank him for the good things and for refining work not to coincide with evil things in the world.
4. I found comfort in Piper’s reminding us that we should “expect evil” but that we should also “pray for an escape.” We are not being unspiritual to pray for a way out, and I think sometimes we feel like we must just bear whatever happens. I cannot imagine what this young mother is experiencing. One of my greatest fears is that my children would suffer because of my decisions. But as this book reminds us, we are to “never doubt that God is totally for [us] in Christ,” so all we can do is just trust Him and His ultimate control. I realize those are just pithy answers from someone who has never encountered persecution on a minor scale much less that kind of persecution. But that is the best I can do from this point of reference.
Looking forward to reading what everyone else writes!
1. a)Because of my salvation, I no longer stand condemned before God. I still sin, which requires repentance and forgiveness, but I am not comdemned.
b) Satan.
c) We have to resist the condemnation of the devil, and call to mind the scripture that affirms our perfection in Christ. I Peter 5:9-11 Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world. But may the God of all grace, who called us to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a while, perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you. To Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.
d) Our condemnation by Satan is not edifying…it rejoices in our weakness and is joyful because of our sin. The polar opposite is the encouraging, edification of the holy Spirit. It moves us to repent of our sin, and to be changed for the better.
2. The sharp contrast of Satan’s evil plots and schemes and Christ’s perfect love and grace, brings Christ’s glory into clear focus. We can’t help but see His glory when we see fellow Christian’s bearing up under the burden of pain and difficulty, or when we see the love of Christ being displayed through willful acts of kindness and service in spite of opposition.
3. Expose evil. This one seems pretty simple, but it becomes more complicated in my daily life. I know what is right and wrong, but how do I expose it? Does this mean that I simply walk away from situations that might cause temptation (i.e. a gossip session at work), or does it mean that I should actively speak up for what I know to be true? It seems that not participating is not the same as exposing.
4. The fact that no matter what happens to her or her family, it’s all temporary. Satan can hurt and even kill our bodies, but he can never destroy our souls. We are instructed to rejoice in our afflictions, because they bring us endurance, character and hope. Romans 5:1-5 Therefore, since we have been declared righteous by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Also through Him, we have obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. And not only that, but we also rejoice in our afflictions, because we know that affliction produces endurance, endurance produces proven character, and proven character produces hope. This hope does not disappoint, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
I can’t wait to read all the other thoughts and comment!
Xandra
Or comments…whatever :)
1. I often feel crushed under the weight of the enemy’s accusations, be it all I didn’t do and should’ve done, or all I did and shouldn’t. Rom. 8:1 is the glorious promise of no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus because the Spirit has set us free! Nothing I have done can be held against me because Jesus has paid the penalty! I am justified, declared not guilty and righteous, because of His glorious, amazing grace. I often mistake conviction for condemnation, yet conviction is the Lord’s kindness to me! The Holy Spirit will do His good work of exposing my sin and I can trust that as I confess and repent, He is faithful and just to forgive; what grace!
2. To quote Piper, “The Son of God, Jesus Christ, will be more highly honored and more deeply appreciated and loved in the end because he defeats Satan not the moment after Satan fell, but through millenia of long-suffering, patience, humility, servanthood, suffering, and decisively through his own death. A single, sudden, and infinitely holy display of power to destroy Satan immediately after his fall would have been a glorious display of power and righteousness. But it would not have been the fullest possible display of all the glories in the Son and the Father.”
He goes on to say, “Satan, and all his pain, serves in the end to magnify the power and wisdom and love and grace and mercy and patience and wrath of Jesus Christ. We would not know Christ in the fullness of his glory if he had no defeated Satan in the way that he did.” (page 49)
3. “Give thanks for the refining effect of evil that comes against you.” Give thanks? For evil? For suffering? This is counter to my preference for ease and comfort and absence of conflict. But the Word is clear that we are to rejoice in our sufferings, particularly those sufferings that come to us from those who are opposed to us, knowing that suffering produces the good work of endurance in our lives. It is through suffering that Christ because all the more precious to us!
4. Surely knowing there is a plan and purpose, as inscrutable as they may be, brings comfort and strength to those suffering for the cause of Christ. I cannot fathom being persecuted for the sake of the gospel (and am correspondingly ashamed of my whining and complaining), but I can’t help but think of the early church that rejoiced that they were counted “worthy” to suffer for Christ. I pray that Martha and other persecuted believers will stand firm in the faith, knowing that these trials are achieving a greater weight of glory. He is worth it! May we trust Him, knowing that our enemy is already defeated and one glorious day we will know our victory in full!
Great stuff! Thanks again for hosting!
1. Oh, these are great verses here! There is NO CONDEMNATION when we are in Christ. Similarly, John 3:17 tells us that God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. So when we feel those accusations coming at us (and I, like Missy, find that the middle of the night seems to be a ripe time for that!) we can know that the condemnation and accusation is from Satan, not Christ. What to do when this happens? Well, in the armor of God listed in Ephesians 6, the one offensive weapon we have is the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God. As we quote Scriptures such as those listed above, we counter the accusations with Truth. Ephesians 6 also says that we extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one with the shield of faith. Holding on to our faith in Christ and in what we know to be true about Him and about our standing in Him as He as promised in Scripture will enable us to recognize and defeat Satan’s lies.
The difference between Satan’s condemnation and the Holy Spirit’s conviction is shame. The Holy Spirit’s conviction is specific to the sin; however, He does not attack us personally, nor does He bring up past sins. Satan condemnation immediately brings shame and the sense of “you are awful and a complete failure” and he piles it on by dredging up every other time we have failed. Also, the aim of Satan’s condemnation is defeat, and the aim of the Holy Spirit’s conviction is victory.
2. The greater the evil, the greater the glory when it is overcome. Piper says:
“A single, sudden, and infinitely holy display of power to destroy Satan immediately after his fall would have been a glorious display of power and righteousness. But it would not have been the fullest possible display of all the glories in the Son and the Father. God chose an infinitely wise way of displaying the full array of divine glories in letting Satan fall and do his work for millennia….We would not know Christ in the fullness of his glory if he had not defeated Satan in the way he did.”
I have one caveat about this, and I will preface it by saying that I am certainly no theologian and do not have strings of initials after my name. I think Piper makes a very good point. However, Isaiah 40:13 says Who has known the mind of the LORD, or instructed Him as His counselor? Also, God clearly tells us “For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways,” declares the LORD. “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts.” (Isaiah 55:8-9). I do think we need to be very, very careful in declaring why God did something that is not fully explained in Scripture. Especially areas such as this when our finite minds can barely grasp the “what”, much less the “why”. God is perfectly capable of glorifying Himself in His total fullness even if He had defeated Satan instantaneously. God is not limited. He may choose to work a certain way. But that is certainly not because His glory won’t be seen if He doesn’t. Omnipotent and Almighty mean just that!
Again, I’m not necessarily disputing Piper’s conclusion, just reminding us all that it is one man’s interpretation and conclusion, not an absolute.
3. I guess I struggle the most with the last one – “never doubt that God is totally for you in Christ. Evil that happens to me is not “God’s punishment in wrath.” It may be “fatherly discipline” or refinement. I don’t struggle with it mentally but practically, primarily due to the way I was raised. Because my dad was very strict and legalistic, it is much easier for me to see the parts of God’s character that are related to justice than those that extend grace and mercy.
4.There is a world beyond what we experience. Not just heaven, although If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men. (I Corinthians 15:19) But God is working in ways that cannot be seen – both in the invisible world as well as in this world – for His glory. Martha and her family will likely never know this side of heaven all the ways their situation was used for God’s glory and to witness of His saving grace and power. Only God knows the impact they are having on others who hear their story, who witness their faithfulness, and who are changed eternally. And while evil may think it is triumphing over good right now in this situation, God’s glory will burst forth at just the right time and overcome all the forces of evil – decisively, completely, and eternally.
My brain hurts. . . ! Love this study!!
Sadly, I didn’t get to do my post today…shooting for tomorrow… Thanks for hosting :)
1. Yes, Satan accuses me when I forget that it’s not up to ME to prove my righteousness, but that my right standing with God is only because of Jesus’ righteousness, not my own successes or failures.
My appropriate guilt kicks in when I don’t give God the glory he is due when I have opportunity to. That doesn’t make me less righteous in his eyes though, because he sees me as his child.
2. God purposefully allows Satan to live on. Otherwise, Satan would be gone. I think I follow Piper’s logic here on an intellectual viewpoint, but I still have trouble totally “getting” this. My human mind wants God to defeat Satan NOW and bring even more glory to Christ in that way. I have to trust that HIS ways are FAR superior to my thinking though.
3. Of the 8 things to do with evil, I have most trouble giving thanks for the refining effects of evil.
I also still get caught off-guard by evil, so I guess I also have trouble with “expect it.” I get disappointed too easily when I hear of people falling prey to evil, including myself.
4. I also will pray for Martha. I think this “weighty doctrine” can give her a measure of peace in knowing that there is purpose in her suffering, and that God is being glorified because she is retaining her faith through it. Such a tough, sad situation.
I finally got caught up on my blog posts to correlate with this study. More here:
http://lisanotes.blogspot.com/2009/02/why-does-god-permit-satan-to-live.html
Sorry I am so late in posting, the week got away from me, but I loved this Chapter! It really does make me think long and deeply about these issues. I guess that is another reason I am late with my answers.
1. a) The law of the Spirit of Life has saved me from the law of sin and death.
b) The accusations come from the “accuser” and they are lies. We should believe in the saving act of Christ crucified and the power it gives. I liked the quote on pg. 51; “Never doubt that all the evil that befalls you—even if it takes your life—is God’s loving, purifying, saving, fatherly discipline. It is not an expression of his punishment in wrath.”
c) Conviction of our sin by the Holy Spirit is to modify the direction we are going; to get us back on the path that God has us travel. Condemnation is without forgiveness. It is a guilty verdict, and when it comes from the Evil One, it is a lie.
2.By allowing the trials, evil and suffering to go on, the power of Christ to bring grace and peace into our lives is profound. As Luke says in Chapter 7:47″Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little.” Christ is glorified when He saves us from much, forgives us much, and we love Him much. As Piper ends this section, “Satan, and all his pain, serves in the end to magnify the power and wisdom and love and grace and mercy and patience and wrath of Jesus Christ.”
3. To give thanks for suffering and to never doubt that God is totally for me in Christ. It is easy for me to let self doubt creep in and to think of suffering as punishment from God, not re-direction. I need to keep these lists in the forefront of my mind as I survey all the pain and sorrow around me.
4. Thank you Missy for sharing this truly horrifying story! Yesterday I read a devotion in “Praying the Names of Jesus,” week 7, day 2, by Ann Spangler. The name is King of Kings (Basileus Basileon). In this lesson she talked about nations developing extreme measures for controlling their people. After citing several examples, she pointed out that Jesus, the King of Kings, reversed the usual formula whereby we are forced to conform, and instead, transformed us through the power of His Spirit. She writes; “As one early Christian writer put it, God “was determined to save us by persuasion, and not by compulsion — for there is no compulsion found with God. His mission was no pursuit or hounding of us, it was an invitation.”1 In this way, step by step, Christ builds the only kind of kingdom that will last — the only kind worth living in forever.” She exhorts us to remember there is no compulsion in Christ, “Each of us is called not to advance the kingdom by force but to spread it through the contagious power of Christ’s love.”
I am praying for this family, and for all the family of Christ, that His love will shine through us and that others will see the deliverance He brings and will love Him and glorify Him for His wisdom, love, grace, mercy, and patience, and yes, even wrath against those that persecute Him.
Be Blessed,
Karen
Besides the fact that this was a very challenging chapter for me, we experienced an unexpected death in our church family this week which delayed my posting.
1. *Yes, I do feel accused at times. I don’t think the enemy ever stops trying to tear us down.
**Paul states that there is no condemnation in Christ and we are freed from the power of sin that leads to death.
***Accusations about our failures come from Satan, the deceiver and our enemy.
****Consciously rebuke the enemy in the name of Jesus Christ!
*****The Holy Spirit convicts with love to nuture, lead and direct. He does not belittle or shame.
2. Piper’s seems to be saying that it is the choice of Jesus over Satan that gives the ultimate form of glory to Jesus. When we make the choice of choosing Jesus over Satan, we fulfill God’s purpose in letting Satan live. Thus glorifying the infinitely superior worth of Jesus. There has to be the choice for it to gloriously, magnify Jesus to the fullest and if God had not allowed Satan to live there would be no choice.
3. I finally came to the conclusion that giving thanks can still be the most difficult for me. Giving thanks through illnesses, loss of loved ones, loss of finances or loss of your independence can be hard enough, but giving thanks through some of the wicked, vile and detestable things that some people especially children endure can be almost impossible to phathom. It is hard to comprehend that the good is worth the pain. Yet, I do believe that the final reward will be truly worth anything that I bear in this life and giving thanks during the pain is really the only choice.
4. Knowing that the evil of this world is never out of God’s control no matter what it looks like to our human eyes and knowing that persecution serves the purpose of bringing glory to Jesus seems to be truths that would give comfort to someone enduring such trials as Martha. Also, it seems to me, the act of being able to pray for escape from these trials even as I held tight to the truths already mentioned would provide another form of comfort.
That being said, I can’t imagine what it would be like to go through what Martha and others are going through because of their faith. I hope that reading this book and your answers will help prepare me for what certainly is to come.
Calling on all my prayer warriors
Please see my post.
Becky
Becky, I’m praying for your brother Marc and sister-in-law Cindi. I’m very sorry. Almost a year ago, my best friend’s husband had a brain aneurysm. He survived (with permanent damage) by the grace of God, but it taught me so much about the dangers of aneurysms. May God be with your entire family.
I am finally having a moment to post. I have been reading along with you guys, but haven’t been able to gather enough brain cells to post a coherent thought. :)
I did want to reply to question 4 dealing with Martha. I read Voice of the Martyr regularly and am overwhelmed at what others endure. The truths in Piper’s book pointing to the greatness of our God helps me to pray and have hope for those in situations like Martha. A heavenly reward awaits and God himself will divide justice. Selfishly, I pray that I nor my children would ever have to endure those things, but if He wills it then my only response is to bring Glory to Him.
A high and risky calling indeed.
Sorry I just can’t keep caught up.
1. Yes there are times I feel accused. But Romans verses here say I am not condemned because I am in Christ. All the accusations of failure come from Satan. And now so more often when I hear a voice of accusation I remind myself of what I believe, of Whom I believe, of what He says is Truth: NO CONDEMNATION because I am in Christ Jesus. I remind myself of all the people I know or read about that have overcome the accusations, that live victorious lives in Him.
Condemnation by the Holy Spirit compels me to repent and seek forgiveness. Condemenation by the evil one defeats me further, consumes me and drives me away from God.
2. God allowing Satan to live brings glory to Christ because despite his evil ways, God’s plan triumphed in Christ on the cross. Despite the evil one’s ways, we run into God’s arms and praise God.
3. Well the one thing I put a question mark next to was from the 4th item under 4 Things Never to Do with Evil in which Piper says “Only mercy comes to us from God, not wrath, if we are His children through faith in Jesus.”. I think God could get angry with me. And sure mercy is from Him, we deserved punishment and death at one time but are now saved from this. But I guess I’m just having a hard time wrapping my mind around the idea that God’s wrath could not be the consequence of perhaps unconfessed sin, or willfull disobedience.
4. Whoa, this is a hard one. It’s difficult, uncomfortable to even imagine being in that situation and wondering how I would act. Well what might bright comfort but what else then knowing that God is GOD. Believing despite the present circumstances that He IS totally for me.
Now…on to reading Chapter 4 for me!